Mary Duggan Transcript transcribed by Valerie Fisher
Anthony Fisher interviewing Mary T. Duggan who is currently living in west Enfield.
Interview date: 4th March, 2023.
Anthony
Mary, were you born in Enfield?
Mary
No, I’m Irish. I was born in Ireland. I came over here, I think, about 1955, to actually the borders of Edmonton – Bush Hill Park/Edmonton borders. A bit homeless actually because I was a sick child and Great Ormond Street accepted to take me so my parents were looking for somewhere to live. We were with family members for a while, the family members had come over previous to that and they were in Enfield and my mother was a trained housekeeper and nanny – Dublin nanny – and so she managed with just sheer luck to live in the park for about a week – Bush Hill Park – they lived in the park with me for about a week – actually outside and the caretaker used to open the toilets to allow my mum to go in and wash me. Great Ormond Street had accepted me because the Dublin Hospital had let an operation fail so they brought me straight over here to the best hospital in the world. We did go back had forth to Ireland for a little while but unfortunately they had nowhere to live because the family couldn’t have them any more and my mother found a live-in job with a widower with a young child and he wanted my mother with all her trained skills to be a housekeeper and so they lived in that house which they bought after that.
Anthony
Whereabouts was that?
Mary
This was in Bridgenhall Road, Enfield, near Forty Hall. So I used to rummage around Forty Hall all the time as a young child, great escapades but –
Anthony
Where did you go to school then?
Mary
I went to school in St George’s Roman Catholic School in Gordon Road off Enfield Chase. It’s a feeder school for Holy Family Convent.
Anthony
Is it still a Roman Catholic School?
Mary
Yes, very much so and a feeder school for St Ignatius and the Grammar School.
Anthony
So you used to walk quite a way then to school from Forty Hall.
Mary
Yes, we generally speaking and then my mother used to catch the bus from Forty Hall when the buses were there – there’s a big pub there, the Goat, which is now a residential area but the buses used to stop there by the cattle trough and go into Enfield itself so she used to go down there with the old clippies on board and everything like that. But it was nothing for us to walk to that school or wherever and we would walk back as well and unfortunately my brother and I tried to dodge the bullies from them, the Chace School the secondary boys when we were primary school. They were interesting years and there was a fish and chip shop there sometimes was a absolute luxury to have fish and chips.
Anthony
So your mum and dad eventually bought that house and you lived there for quite a while.
Mary
They bought that house in Bridgenhall Road because they were treated like live-in sitting tenants, I can’t remember how they had a bit of a legal claim but the chap decided to sell to them and that was our family home until we moved to Ponders End in the mid to late 60s. We lived there over the old shops there because we had financial problems so we went to live over my mum and dad’s shop in South Street near the railway line. There was a whole string of old shops leading up to the railway line and some people were from the Victorian age, still managing Sesafield’s, the old sweet shop, and it was very much going into a Victorian setting; dark, dingy, but we had some very interesting characters. We a butcher’s next door to us and in the back was run a café for working men and for us to pop into and have really good home-made meals by the wife and the children so it was families and people. There was a little min-market there, we didn’t have supermarkets then really. There was a big, big community of ad-hoc cafés and hair salons and very old buildings that were knocked down for the new 1970s business enterprise and high-rise flats on Alma Road.
Anthony
So what did the shops sell?
Mary
My father’s shop? They always used to be commercially opportunistic, my parents, whether in Ireland or in England and it was a fishing tackle shop and they decided to run a confectioner’s shop and they eventually expanded to Triang toys and things like that to sell and they had mainly pegboards up and they were very hard up, they had no money, and they had a lot of dummy chocolates at first when they first opened and they were doing the shop up and someone said “When are you going to open, Mate?” because Mrs Sesafield did confectionary and tobacco but these were newbies unfortunately challenging her business and there were a lot of people from Ford’s over the line who used to spill out at the end of the day when the siren would go, they would just spill out in their droves across the railway line with their bicycles in the fog, the London fog and whatever and in those days we had the smog as well and they were looking, they were hungry for something and there was nothing much there other than these other shops and Mrs Sesafield so my dad opened a sweet shop, we children thought it was great – sweet shop what! and he had these dummy chocolates and he said “Yes, have one, have one,” and we thought we were – and they were dummies because he could only afford so much money went into the wholesalers and he didn’t realize their little savings would only stretch to a few cigarettes, boxes of cigarettes etc but they did branch out. DC comics they sold, Triang toys they sold, all sorts.
Anthony
And how long was it there for?
Mary
It was there – we took over the business actually when it was a new business –
Anthony
You say “We” –
Mary
When I was married, my mum eventually gave up the business so my father had a string of shops in Enfield by then, small shops, off licences and things like that so we had two shops within the new shops there but the old shop was there until they redeveloped and they closed the road and we went into absolute poverty and they did warn my father but he didn’t listen and we were one of the last ones out and they said “We’re turning the water off, you can’t stay here any more.” My father was doing mini cabbing because we couldn’t make ends meet. This was in, I think, this was when I was about 15 so the late 60s, I think. I was going to the Holy Family Convent in London Road then, which was a religious secondary modern school by then from private. It had changed to secondary modern so it was a complete change for the country, it was new wave, new thinking, new curriculum. I left about 1969 or 1970 and I got my first job; I was about 16. I left and my friends were still studying but we were very poor then and I left to – I was unhappy anyway at school, I was also doing some A levels at St Ignatius and being a bit bullied because I had facial differences, I was a bit challenged there so I left in the end and I went to work for the local government in the Engineering Department at Palmers Green Town Hall and that was my first job. There were plenty of jobs around, you just went to appointments and you got a job and while I was there I went to evening classes and did A levels so I got my A levels the same as my friends at school but I was working.
Anthony
So quite a lot of distances you used to have to travel. Did you walk there from where you were living. St Ignatius is on the A10 isn’t it.
Mary
No, we got the bus, probably the 307 route and that was the first time I was going to do History A level and a few others – our school, Holy Family Convent only started doing A levels – we didn’t do any Science hardly, we did mainly Biology at GCE but we didn’t do that; we did Home Economics, we did country dancing – I loved it – we did dramatic stuff, I mean I loved it – and poetry and elocution lessons, I loved it, but having said that we weren’t an academic school because we were women and we were anticipated to going into probably secretarial or something like that. St Ignatius offered an A level platform but it was the first time that someone said to me that I was intelligent, that they acknowledged me, the History teacher. It was a moment for me but I had to leave because the boys bullied me.
Anthony
How dreadful!
Mary
Yes, well it happens. It was what it was, boys can be silly, it was what it was. So, yes, I did very well. I did one A level in one year and a GCE and I passed those and I thought, “My Goodness, I can get these” so I did another year while working and I got top marks and I just went on from there. But we were very poor at the one time.
Anthony
But you did manage to get a place at college didn’t you, or university?
Mary
I got a place to do Law at Cardiff Law School but I failed because I had visual differences and I was managing a transition without psychological help or therapy at those time so, yes, it was quite challenging but grateful for Great Ormond Street input and they moved me on as I got older and that transition was difficult as well to go to an adult hospital as Great Ormond Street was very, very nurturing and, you know, many memories of children crying on the balconies at night and things like that.
Anthony
So how long were you going to Great Ormond Street?
Mary
Well, it’s a lifetime programme. I’m still having work done. Cleft lip and palette can be more or less serious. You can have cleft of your hands, feet, I’ve noticed little babies coming in, you can have multiple clefts or you can have a unilateral cleft or a bilateral cleft. You can have speech impediments, you can have deafness associated with it, so my speech therapy went on. My parents ensured that I did elocution lessons at the school and being a single sex school really helped me because we were a very nurturing school up to a point so that’s a life-long thing. I had major operations, jaw changes, bones from hips replacing those in the jaw; they were major operations. I would say that quite a few of them went on for quite some time and I used to have to push for progressive operations as well. They weren’t necessarily doing them but now they have got much more interesting things they can do for children but that’s not to say that these children don’t have conditions that affect their speech or nasal oration and things like that. It’s only I should say with the last four or five years I’ve be able to talk about it through constant therapy and I’m thankful for the NHS picking me up and building me up again. I’m a very confident person outwardly, I have that persona because I’ve had to and it’s my armour but inwardly that isn’t the same. It’s doing something for equalities, for opportunities for people with visible and invisible difference for employers to try and help or be aware of throughout people’s working life.
Anthony
So how long were you in Cardiff then?
Mary
I was only in Cardiff for a couple of years. I left because I wasn’t used to the type of huge interaction. I really enjoyed it, it was great, but I wasn’t able to transition through my health difficulties so I think that underpinned the problem. Then I went to Salford University and I did a multitude of disciplines, humanitarian disciplines. I was there for three years for Sociology and Politics mainly, so that was o.k., I managed that transition. You know, I think if I had some psychological help I could have managed things better but that was that. And years later I did a Birkbeck degree when I had my four children and I was working during the day so I’ve always had to drive myself. I studied at Tottenham Technical College (inaudible) along with lots and lots of immigrants who just studied to get a better life for themselves which was a really big opening gambit for me. I also went to America as a young child when we had more money at first and saw racialism in America. I was in Philadelphia just as almost the riots hit and I did see the awful way black children were treated, certainly within the Catholic school I went to for a while. I was quite shocked.
Anthony
How long were you in America?
For about six weeks but it was totally working within the culture and my great-aunt. We stayed with my other relatives, they didn’t mix with the black community but they knew them as good friends but we just didn’t care – as Irish people our strangest culture was the English, how they worked you know but other than that we didn’t think anything of anything. My brother went to the black barber’s and my great-aunt told us off because, even though she knew him very well, we had gone to a black barber.
Anthony
Where did you meet your husband?
Mary
I met my husband at Salford University; he was a bio-chemist – my ex-husband – I am divorced. I was twenty three years married but I opted for divorce myself, to find myself again maybe, because I had a very very long working life, also with the children as well, and independence – having businesses. Yes, I met him at Salford University, he was a bio-chemist and we fell in love .He didn’t like working for other companies so we always had to be opportunistic. I am that type of person anyway but it led me down that path.
Anthony
Did you live with him in Enfield?
Mary
Yes, we were made homeless, funnily enough – that was a strange story – and we ended up back in our own borough which I’m from so I had claims on the borough and they found me a flat along Bullsmoor Lane, in Bullsmoor Way, a low rise flat and we stayed there for a couple of years and saved some money. My husband started a business up in London and was working in the evenings in pubs and things like that to support it and we managed to save up some money for a house. At that time you could buy your council property but I gave mine back because I was so grateful to have it and that was with my first child. I lived there for two or three years.
Anthony
So you have four children?
Mary
Four children, yes.
Anthony
When did you move to where you are now?
Mary
We bought our first house in Southgate, in between Old Southgate and New Southgate, and lived there until we moved to a detached house at the top of the hill and we had our own businesses and things and I moved out of that house when my youngest daughter was about 17. I stayed with my mum and then I sunk my share of the equity into a house in Trinity Street in 2006. That was when I was divorced.
Anthony
So going back to your time in South Street when you were living above the shop and all the workers were coming by – did you talk to them at all?
Mary
We had very busy sessions when the papers would come in, they’d be dropped in and the football results were in, so people would hang around in the shop for the football results. Usually I remember the drizzling rain and everything and people hanging around and mist on the windows because there were so many people within the shop and obviously we’d sell all sorts of things. My mother, during that time, when we went into poverty my mother had a brain tumour so we went through very very difficult times and we were homeless so we were housed by the London Borough of Enfield from that shop to the new ones that were built but that was a thriving shop, it was a little goldmine when my father and mother turned it into a newspaper and confectioner’s and the people would stream out when the sirens went from Fords, across the line. You could hear the sirens, you knew that the people would be coming out on their bicycles and flat caps. Women worked there as well, in the car factory, they would come into the shop and buy tobacco and confectionery. Then we did cards and we did sweets and we had the Triang contract to sell things like that. It was interesting, Old Shop Street, Old Southgate, very very tight community but no high rise at that time.
Anthony
You were west of the railway line because when you go over to the east of the railway line it’s a very different community, isn’t it. So you were to the west of the railway line so was it a community there do you think?
Mary
It was; we had a pub across the road – I can’t remember what it was called now – and then the Railway pub right near the railway and we knew the people there. It did change hands eventually, both of them did, so people used to pop in for a drink and things like that as well to those community and bars as well but it was a very tight knit community and there were lots of backroom cafés and you would know what they sold. Some would have home made sherry trifle, you just lick your lips on, and others would do home made shepherds pie and stuff like that – these were back rooms and they might have a different business in the front but they were all creaky old shops.
Anthony
Where did you play? Did you have time to play?
Mary
Yes, we had a back. My father had made – he was very inventive – he made tea cosies out of some fake fur cut offs that were left out from some factory or other they noticed and he made tea cosies and then they moved into making teddy bears with moveable limbs but the one thing they had that no other teddy bear or dog or rabbit had, and they did blue colours and yellow colours and grey colours and stuff, was a lullaby mechanism you wound up within the body of the animal that a child could take to bed with it and it was very … and he sold to places like Harrods as well. I mean it was outworkers in Harlow he had going because my mum was very good at organising businesses. The outworkers started doing a lot of rejects and in the end the business failed so he went out and sold the rejects and we had to sew up the ears, as a child and put in glass eyes and do all that stuff.
Anthony
So how old were you then?
Mary
At that time we went into poverty so I would say I was probably around about 12 or maybe to 14.
Anthony
So you didn’t go and play in the streets?
Mary
I only lived in Ponders End for about three years before we moved onto a homeless house before the new ones were being built because the council had a contract with us to give us the new shop when it was opened so we were sort of hanging on in there but we had no money. We had stairs coming down from the second floor of it, it was a garret, so it was three floors with an attic room
and us children slept in the attic room and my parents slept on the next floor down and my brother had the little single room and it was very dusty, no carpets down so the dust would come through the floor boards because they were old and split. We used to go up a windy stairs and in the height of the summer we had the daddy longlegs which I’ve written a poem about because they were so horrible and flying around and we had windows that looked over towards the pub but outside we had a handmade type of wooden stair well and I suspect my father made it because he made all sorts of things and we could go down to the garden, as the places were being demolished and we were hanging on, the garden was basically an open area. We had an outside toilet and we had just a sink, a dark sink inside, no light just one dark butler sink for all of us to wash in and a back room to live in behind the shop. That was myself and my sisters and brother so a young family. And my mother had this tumour at that time and she was not the same afterwards but she mostly recovered.
Anthony
Did you go back when the new shops were built?
Mary
We went back into the new shop, we reopened. It was like the Berlin Wall walking up South Street; we had no buses down there, so it was very much an island and we had the long, long, wall of the Metallic Tubing Company and that was just a wall, just a whole wall, then we had Durants Park, so we played in Durants Park, that was our play mecca.
Anthony
And the shop reopened in the same way, did it?
Mary
No, the shop reopened as a grocery and provision shop and my dad eventually bought another shop, it was a launderette originally and made an off licence of it but in the old shop across the road we had a betting place and I used to babysit for upstairs where the lady rented a flat with a little boy who had special needs. I used to babysit for her and get walnut whips for my payment.
They were very interesting people around, Mrs Sesafield was one and a man on his own who ran a café. Fords were still going then, very much so.
Anthony
Was that after they shut the level crossing. I know we used to go to Rochester to see my grandparents and go through Ponders End over the level crossing but then they closed it.
Mary
I think the new business was there for quite some considerable time before they closed that. I mean, I took over from my mother for a while. I didn’t want to but my ex-partner wanted to, and I knew what to expect from the work of it but we took over for a couple of years and then sold it on but I think Ford was still going until we left but I’m not absolutely sure.
Anthony
So you still had people coming up when the siren went?
Mary
It may be that that changed with the high rises, but I’m a bit unclear.
Anthony
When did you start working at Ferguson’s?
Mary
I started working in 1979, my child was young, I had no ability to earn any money. We needed money, my ex-partner had started a new business and we didn’t have much money but it was on the promise. A very lovely Asian chap in Goodge Street owned the business and the property and he was very paternalistic and we got some good contracts in, in the end so that allowed us to buy our own property but I needed work so I didn’t tell them about my academic background and so I got a job to do evening work at Ferguson’s and that was line assembly work for printed circuit boards so it was putting in various things.
Anthony
Did you solder them at all?
Mary
Yes, I did soldering and, for one strange reason or another, if you know my personality, I was promoted, promoted, promoted. I don’t know whether that was to keep me away from trouble or not but the women there asked me to be a shop steward there as well so we had a very, what we considered, a serious welfare/work scenario that we needed the women to have put in place by the management who refused to do that so there was, with the support of the trade unions, a work to rule put in place by the women. And we had six hundred women working on assembly lines and other operatives but predominantly male charge hands, male factory manager and they were quite autocratic. But it allowed us to earn money because we had families to support or very young children to support; 6 p.m. to 10 p.m. shifts. I was a breast feeding mother so I used to run home to feed my baby or get the bus and cold nights and then we’d wait at the gates to pick up the children so that women could go into work at 6 o’clock; you know it would be a switch, a transfer, so it was very important that women were able to negotiate that.
Anthony
So the women would go to the gate with the children and their fathers came out and picked the children and took them back?
Mary
The fathers would come by and pick the children up off them. Not always – I managed to get a baby minder just for the hour or so when my ex-partner could pick up my first born but not always and that was tense that was why we had eventually this work to rule because they wouldn’t open the cash tills at the top, they had a cash desk and we worked on the upper floor, we had shop stewards on the upper floor, shop stewards on the lower floor. We had a convenor.
Anthony
What did you need the cash tills for?
Mary
Cash tills to pay us on Fridays, weekly paid in arrears on Friday collect your money and this would have meant that the women could give their babies over, could come in, they could clock on and get their money upstairs rather than having to allow time to queue for their money downstairs. There was the opportunity upstairs they just weren’t getting it.
Anthony
So a work to rule by six hundred women was a lot but you managed to get the tills opened upstairs?
Mary
Well, we were refused and this wasn’t meant that women didn’t have to queue downstairs, it meant time on their side so that they could give their babies over and get in and they were queuing and then signing on so they were allowing time to queue, get their money downstairs, six hundred women where it could have been three hundred and three hundred queuing or getting their money and the management refused to do that so the women decided to agree to doing a work to rule and they were legally allowed to sign on first and then go and get their money which is what they did and there were so many queues downstairs within working time now because the cash tills could only deal with so many at any one time that the factory manager decided to refuse to pay women and send them to work on a line belt and that was breaking industrial law.
Anthony
So did you win in the end?
Mary
Of course; the manager and the charge hand were sacked but a lot of nasty, dirty things went on by the factory managers telling the women they wouldn’t be paid, having unofficial meetings with the women which they weren’t allowed to have without a shop steward which I forced myself on to, of course, and nasty comments towards them and things like that but yes, we did win. We had a convenor (inaudible) it was a small thing but it was an important thing.
Anthony
So when my father said that the management treated people badly, he was right because this would have been the 50s he was talking about; 50s and 60s, because he had friends in Ferguson and he said they were treated badly.
Mary
Well, it was a way of life for women, you herded women. They are still herded today within, you know, like nurses. There’s a reason why they have got away with paying them less and some of it is to do with gender I’m afraid. So I have always been strident for justice so I think that made me a natural feminist.
Anthony
Yes, of course my father’s friends were male and you are talking about women so there were problems there but obviously the female problems were made worse by their gender but as the attitude of the manager to the employees which seemed to be a bit …
Mary
Well they were men, males and they didn’t have to consider – they were powerful, they could make or break you but myself I rose through – any new nuanced job they had they would ask me to – whether they thought they were buying me or not because they did buy some women to be like spies – it was very interesting – within the group but I eventually was the only one that was offered a job to be – I got Saturday work which was double pay which was great and I also worked on some very new initiatives as a super float. I became a float for anyone who was missing I would fix in with that job and do that and then I became a floating float because they got new contracts in and I got Saturday work as well which paid very well for me at that time and so I was very lucky at that time before I went back to working fulltime.
Anthony
So when did you leave Ferguson’s?
Mary
I think I left once we won that thing I left because I got a fulltime job in HR for the North West Health Authority in Paddington. So I obviously applied for it and managed to get this fulltime job. I wanted to use my own skill base and progress myself and then I put the little one into full time (care) with the same people.
Anthony
And you stayed there for a long time, did you?
Mary
No, I stayed there for a couple of years, then (went into) our own various businesses so things changed, having our own house as well, different interests, different life scenarios, good, bad and indifferent, that we managed to muddle through.
Anthony
What job did you retire from?
Mary
Well, I worked locally in Enfield because I – when I first divorced my ex-partner wouldn’t give me the books to my businesses, I was the main (instigator) and they were very successful and he came to work within them. I used to run antiques and stuff like that, I used to do apart from my mother’s business which we sold off so it was very much independent working and I also had units, I had markets, I developed into lovage and stuff like that. I would sell on line as well. I had lots and lots of different commercial interests, very successful and when I divorced I gave all that up.
Anthony
What year was that?
Mary
2005/6 and when I divorced because I didn’t have any evidence of the last two years at least but eight years it was of my own business. I worked locally in the local shopping mall at British Book Shop for a Saturday job because I had the house now and no income, I said, “Don’t take any notice of my c.v. I’ll do it, don’t worry, I’ll commit and I’ll be there for you.” They gave me a trial, they thought I was brilliant, they told next door, next door, Millett’s, gave me five days – still there – so I worked for them and Millett’s was a very difficult company to work for but they paid quite well but the book shop paid better and – they’ve gone now, British Book Shop, because they didn’t really go on-line until the last minute and they lost against Waterstone’s basically, but anyway it became Dublin based and they sold up that unit because it was too expensive to run. That’s how I started and I got more or less five days a week on a small contract for twenty eight hours on one and Saturday on the other and then I rose through inter management on the British Book Shop’s transferred and the pat on the back on my bottom by my manager in Millett’s was the word to say, “OK you ‘phoned me up and you say it didn’t happen and don’t mention it to anyone” and I was like, “Here’s a weeks notice” and I was gone into the other shop and I had more work there. So that’s why.
Anthony
So what happened at Millett’s?
Mary
Well that was just someone touching me inappropriately, basically. Unprofessionally.
It wasn’t meant in any other necessary way but they lost – I was their top saleswoman; I wouldn’t just sell one extraordinarily expensive item, I would do half the days sales with one customer and it was never coming back, it was sold. I was super sales and they couldn’t believe what they got, so they lost a very good saleswoman there. I knew sales, so academically I’m a historian, academically I’m a post-Roman historian, you know – Celtic, Vikings whatever you like. That’s who I am, really, and I could have gone on there but unfortunately I just didn’t have the money to do that but I got a very good degree at Birkbeck and 3% away from a First, which was fair enough as I wasn’t a brilliant writer at the time.
Anthony
What degrees do you have?
Mary
I have a Humanities degree in Politics and Sociology but also a Humanities History degree but I studied at Queen Mary’s UCL, I was one of their top students there as well and I got scholarships to do something in Ireland and things like that so (I’ve studied) Aglo-Irish history as well. Very exciting days but going there evenings was punishing, it was punishing, it was hard work.
Anthony
So when did you actually stop working?
Mary
I gave up working as an assistant, after the book shop closed I went to work temporarily for the Metropolitan Police.
Anthony
In Enfield?
Mary
Oh no, no, no; on the South side of the River, there’s a big H.Q. there and they were I.T. directorate and then I was head hunted to work for Counter Terrorism for their specialist unit where I had to get higher security cover and things like that. I had to go through a process and worked for them in a code breaking unit area so that was very interesting and then I went to work for Metropolitan Police Immigration, dealing with people who needed verification of the stamping on their passports for interviewing – for people who were not from E.U. countries, described cultures and then I went to Milton Keynes to work for Fraud situation for their bank in Scotland, corporate fraud.
Anthony
Did you move to Milton Keynes?
Mary
No, I didn’t move my house but go there for five days a week and usually came back at weekends so it was for a job, job related. So interesting.
Anthony
So you have been busy.
Mary
I have been busy, strangely, can’t think why, and then I stopped. I decided once that job had finished at Milton Keynes I decided not to work again. I was 58 by that time so I retired on my own money and I was one of the WASPI women that the courts – not realizing that I only had two more years that things would change, not being informed. It wasn’t just that we had our pension dates moved, when we were coming up to our new pension date they moved it again by another eighteen months at very short notice but I didn’t know that when I went for my month before I was due for my state pension by this time the new date for my state pension moved twice, they told me they had changed the qualifications for National Insurance stamps without telling people. They still had it on their website when that happened and they said to me that I was short so I would only get the reduced state pension.
Anthony
So when will you start getting the state pension?
Mary
I got the state pension in 2013, I went on a reduced state pension and since then I have glorified in poetry, glorified from a very small start because I had no money, very little, so I thank Anthony Fisher for first introducing me and referring me to Alan Murray to get some handle on my original thoughts and ideas but I was always interested in poetry, being Irish, my Bible is W.B. Yeats.
Anthony
Interesting. 51 minutes and 43 seconds. Shall I stop?
Mary
Yes.