was born on the island of Jamaica in the town of Montego Bay in 1958.
His mother came to live in the United Kingdom in the early 60s then bought him here in the late 60s where he had a complete schooling in London. Leaving school in the late 70s Warren Started working as an apprentice at a firm called Kieth Blackmans making fans for the Royal Navy, (it was a four year apprenticeship).
After this, he went to English Abrasive where he stayed for 22 years before until the company closed down. He then started work at Besson’s a musical instrument making firm, where he stayed for two years before leaving and joined Fisher Research Ltd. where he has been for 18 years
Oral History Project. Warren Grant, 23rd June, 2023 interview transcribed by Valerie Fisher
Anthony
Perhaps we can start by you giving me your name.
Warren
Warren Lloyd Grant.
Anthony
Where do you live?
Warren
I live in Tottenham, in Northumberland Park.
Anthony
And your date of birth?
Warren
3rd of October, 1958, so I’m 65 this year.
Anthony
Do you have any brothers and sisters?
Warren
I know they’re out there but I don’t know them, because my dad split up with my mother; she came here (to England) and he stayed out in Jamaica and he had another family but I don’t know them.
Anthony
Presumably in Jamaica you went to primary school, is that right?
Warren
Yes. I went to the boys’ school for a couple of years, two or three years, before I left there. I came to the UK in 1966, just after the World Cup although I didn’t know that then. As I said, my Mum came here because they were always trying to get people from Jamaica to come here to do the jobs that other people wouldn’t do. My Mum was a very good dressmaker so she came here but she left me out there with my aunt and she did say, “I will get you over there with me when the time comes.” I wasn’t really on good terms with my Dad because of what had gone on; even when I was little I can remember, and eventually after about three or four years she got me over here.
Anthony
So your Mum earned her living by being a dressmaker?
Warren
A dressmaker in Edmonton, right underneath the Edmonton railway bridge just on the right hand side.
Anthony
Was she working for anyone or was she freelance?
Warren
She was working for a company called Peggy Page. Every time I go by I have a look and the place is still there but they are not Peggy Page.
Anthony
Where were you living?
Warren
We were living in Bruce Castle Road in Tottenham. Right on Bruce Castle Park. She took the bus to work. She took the bus all the time because the buses go straight to Edmonton Green. The Green wasn’t there then, the shopping area. I know Edmonton well because we used to go there on Saturdays for the baths because we didn’t have baths where we lived so every Saturday it was a journey to go up to the Edmonton baths to have a bath. That’s how we did it.
Anthony
It must have been quite a shock moving here. Did you come by boat? Or by ‘plane?
Warren
By ‘plane. It was a VC10, BOAC. I remember that well and they were supposed to be the best ‘planes around at the time and that always stuck in my mind. We flew into Heathrow. I always remember we saw the Smith Klein building, that bit of the M4 where you can look at it, all those – Glaxo and Smith Klein – it wasn’t Glaxo, it was Smith Klein then.
Anthony
What were your feelings when you first stepped off the ‘plane?
Warren
It was strange but I was looking to it. Firstly, it was nice to see my mother again and it was going to be an adventure – to me, that’s how I looked at it and I must admit, the best thing that ever happened to me.
Anthony
You were very young when she left.
Warren
Absolutely, I was about 4 years old.
Anthony
Who looked after you in Jamaica?
Warren
My aunt. My aunt was pretty well off, it’s like a Hollywood Hills where we were in Montego Bay. You had down the Town then you had the hills where all the richer people lived and Mum left me with her rather than down the Town where her Mum and all her other family were. That was a good life from what I remember, you know, but it changed when I came here. I knew it was going to be like an adventure and it has been an adventure, I must admit.
Anthony
A very brave thing to do.
Warren
People say that to me now but at the time the thought never occurred to me because I got on this ‘plane on my own, no that’s not true because the whole family was so big in Montego Bay, so many of them, they were in all different jobs, my uncle was actually one of the official people at the airport so I didn’t have to do anything. He just got me on the ‘plane, I didn’t have to go through passport, nothing, he just got me on the ‘plane and that’s where I first met green beans and baked beans. I’d never had them before; baked beans, wow! That was fantastic. I don’t think today they would allow what I did because I came on my own, at that age, I don’t think they would allow that today. But the stewardesses were brilliant, they were absolutely fantastic, they treated me like a king, I can remember that.
Anthony
Were you alone with your Mum?
Warren
We stayed with a friend of hers in Bruce Castle Road, there were about three bedrooms -her friend was in one, she was in one and then I had the other one. It was all planned, it was all worked out what was going to happen. And we were right on Bruce Castle Park so we were looking over the park, best thing that was, that was lovely.
Anthony
School must have been strange,
Warren
Not really, school to be honest it was the best time of my life because back then you didn’t have a lot of black people here; I was one of three in the school and everyone treated me like a king – everybody.
Anthony
So you didn’t suffer any prejudice?
Warren
No, people didn’t know what that was, at our age it didn’t exist, It was the best time of my life in school, at my junior school because I was in the infant school for a little while then I was straight in the junior school. It was a fantastic time and where I lived in Bruce Castle Road – it was half way up the road – the school was at the end of the road, so I had to wait for the whistle to go and then I came out and went to school. So we did it.
Anthony
I suppose you must have had quite a strong Jamaican accent when you came over.
Warren
I suppose I did; I must have but it didn’t stay for long because I mixed in with everybody and I think that’s what people don’t understand that if you mix in with everyone and everyone treats you like one of them you end up being one of them.
Anthony
To a large extent it is a two-way street, that isn’t the whole story, of course, but you’re right, it makes it easier.
Warren
It was a fantastic time in my life.
Anthony
Where did you go to school after that?
Warren
I went to Lancastrian School, it was pretty well known, anyone studying history in Tottenham will have heard of it. That was the juniors, then I went into the senior school which was called Somerset School. The first year I went there it was a grammar school and it was the last grammar school and luckily enough I went there and it was all boys.
Anthony
So you must have passed the 11+ then?
Warren
Yes. And that’s a famous school in Tottenham as well, they pulled it down in the end. The lower school was at Lordship Lane and the upper school was up White Hart Lane and the upper school, which was from the third year upwards, had a hall with really famous paintings and an organ, worth a lot of money, then it burnt down in my last year. It was an absolute tragedy. We all used to try and get off school but when that happened we were all so upset.
Anthony
So you took O Levels?
Warren
Yes, GCEs we took then because you had CSEs as well. GCE was the highest one, I got three of those if I remember rightly – History, Geography and English Lit; that’s why I am such a romantic guy (laughs).
Anthony
Nothing wrong with being a romantic!
Warren
Not at all!
Anthony
So when did you leave this school?
Warren
I left in 1979, I think. I was 16 when I left school. Because I was so good at History and Geography and English Lit. I could have carried on into the 6th form which could take me to university and I was thinking of doing that and I said I would. I went back to school, got everything arranged and then I got a job – I can’t remember what they called it now – it was a training thing the government was doing with companies, like an apprenticeship, and I got into this place called Keith Blackman’s, down in Tottenham Hale right by the river and I thought, “Do you know what? I’d rather go out and learn a trade,” the craft engineering trade it was, and I thought, “I’d rather do that than go back to school,” and I didn’t go back. I went to this but it was only a one year course and I was guaranteed nothing on the end of it. This company made fans for submarines, nuclear submarines and I thought, “Oh, my God,” because this is like a government course, I’ve never seen anything like it in my life but they didn’t actually have us making anything for the fans to start with. We were in another department, we were like trainees – there must have been about eight of us and we just made things – hammers and things like that, we just made things. We didn’t do anything but it was all stuff to do with the work we would be doing from there. And that’s where I started.
Anthony
So how long were you there?
Warren
This course was meant to be a year and after a year they offered me a full four-year apprenticeship and, of course, once that first year was done and I was in the main place, with great big fans. There were Army people coming in, Navy people coming and the main thing was – these things spun so the keys that hold these fans in had to be perfect but they had to be done by hand, they didn’t want them done by machine because you could go down to certain levels with hands because some part might be just not quite right and rather than doing a complete new one you can use a file so they were right. Everything by hand, no machines. So we used to do like four or five fans a day which these were big things and doing these keys. So you had one lot over there putting these fans together, another lot over there doing the keys and I was on the keys.
Anthony
This was for submarines?
Warren
Submarines, all for submarines.
Anthony
They’ve got to be very quiet, haven’t they.
Warren
Yes, exactly. So it was tough to start with because I’d never done anything like that and when you turn round and see, like, sergeant majors and this was submarines, this was the navy, this is the government and I did that for four years and then the fourth year I was going to stay on and then one morning I came to work and everyone was out on the road and I’m thinking, “What’s going on?” Some of the top guys in the company were out on strike and some of the workers had got into the building and we weren’t allowed in because we were just fresh from apprenticeship. So we were sent home but I was in college all this time still doing my craft engineering, I was still doing that, so instead of going one day a week they let us go two days a week, so for about two weeks I didn’t go to work, I just went to college because they were in there all that time. Eventually they made an agreement and we all got back in but the firm was never the same after that. The government wasn’t happy with what happened there and eventually they lost the contract and that was it for the firm. They were saying that they might be able to do something but they never were and we were all laid off in the end.
Anthony
Where did you go then?
Warren
So, I left there and I was off for a little while and then I came to Enfield. There was a job going in ITT which is on the Cambridge Road which was to do with Thorn’s. But it wasn’t in the main Thorn’s building because you go along the Cambridge Road to Thorn’s and it was round the back. There is a petrol station in the Cambridge Road and it’s the road opposite called Progress Way. ITT made TV’s, radios, hi-fi, but it was actually part of Thorn’s. And I ended up there because computers were just coming in, VDUs they were called then, they were great big things. There were just coming in and they were moving over to that and I wanted to be an electronics engineer after I did the other craft one for all those years. I wanted to get into electronics. I passed the Craft Engineer and I wanted into electronics because I could see where the computers were going. Computers were going to be a big thing. I think that was 1983 or 84, something like that, and I was put on to testing VDUs and boards and things like that and then they were going to send us to college for a two year technician’s course. To get into college you had to be a technician first.
Anthony
Where were you going to college then?
Warren
I didn’t go up there; I was there for nine months and all of a sudden they decided to move. I thought they were going to move to just like down the road but they decided to move to Brighton. Now I could have gone but I didn’t want to move to Brighton, I really didn’t and that was basically the end of my electronics career.
Anthony
I did electronics ONC at Enfield Tech. It was very boring but I had to do it. How were you treated there? Did you suffer being a black person?
Warren
No, not at all. You know what, Anthony, to be honest I think it’s a mind set. In my opinion it’s a mind set. I remember one time I was walking down the road – in Tottenham, would you believe it or not! – three guys walked passed me and they said something. I didn’t take any notice, that’s the thing about it; I didn’t take any notice. But unbeknown, some of my friends were further up the road, they were all white but they heard and down they came after them! Straight after them and started banging them – they were protecting me because that’s how we were in Tottenham back in those days and that’s the only time. I never really had any prejudice in my life, never. And I believe it’s a mind set. If you want to keep that chip on your shoulder for ever, you will do. It didn’t even occur to me, it’s really strange you saying that because in Tottenham back in the very, very early days there weren’t a lot of black people, not like it’s now and I always remember there was this – when I was at Bruce Castle Park we used to walk down one road and there was always a black and white couple who’d moved in there. The man was actually white and the woman was black. You’d never seen that before – never! And we were like, “Wow!” And then all of a sudden there was this change in everything; it didn’t happen gradually, it happened suddenly. All of a sudden black people started going with white people, Anthony it went like this, “Bang!” It changed overnight.
Anthony
Suddenly there was integration.
Warren
Yeah! And to this day I’ve never understood why that happened, but it did. I reckon that was in about 1984, 85 it all just went, “Bang!” It just changed.
Anthony
It was normally a black man with a white woman – is that still the case do you think?
Warren
You see more of that, yes. But it was a sudden change, it wasn’t gradual. I have always thought about that – why? It’s weird, really strange, and I saw that in front of my eyes.
Anthony
Getting back to ITT –
Warren
After ITT, then they paid us £1,500 which back then was like £20,000 today and it was summer time coming up and I thought I’d have the summer off because I had this money. Then my Mum kicked me up the arse and said, “No! You’re going out to work!” So there was this place opposite me called English Abrasive and they were looking for people. They made sandpaper and things like that. You think making sandpaper is just glue and paper and sand but it’s nothing like that. It’s all technical. Anyway, I thought I’d go and check so I went over there. I took my certificate with me although I thought, “Why would they even look at these?”. I’ve got about five of them and I took them and I got an interview. They asked me if I had any qualifications and I gave them the certificates, they looked at them and said I could go and look at the job and if I liked it, I’d got the job. I didn’t even have an interview, they just looked at the certificates and said, “You’ve got the job. If you like it – it’s yours.” And I was there twenty-two years.
Anthony
When were you doing metal, making trombones and so on?
Warren
This is afterwards. So I was there twenty-two years up to end of March 2004, but some of us they kept on right too the end because what I was doing, me and another guy, they were paying for us to go up to Manchester which is where they were moving our section to which made all the little sanding belts so we had to go to Manchester and show them how to do this because they had no idea how to do these things, and we did that for about six months.
Anthony
So, English Abrasive moved from Tottenham which is why you stopped working there?
Warren
Yeah. They’re still there, they’re in Stratford actually, just outside. And they paid for us everyday to get a Virgin train up to there and we were only there for two hours and then we came back and that was every single day for six months. And it was £130 for each of those tickets and we did that and then we left.
Anthony
What was it like working for English Abrasive? I mean, you were there a long time.
Warren
It was fantastic until the last five or six years and then it wasn’t so good. I was in charge of a department with about thirty people and it was fantastic up until the last five years when we could tell things (weren’t going so well). We were bought out by the French, Saint Gobain we became instead of English Abrasive and it got really stressful. I was coming home stressing all the time so when it actually closed I was pretty happy about that. I was never going to leave but when they closed it helped me.
Anthony
Was there much social interaction between everybody?
Warren
Yeah. We had a social club, they had everything. It was a typical old style English firm. They had a social club in a big building with snooker, darts and everything so we used to socialise a lot.
Anthony
Did you socialise with other companies?
Warren
Yes, yes, good question, Anthony, we did. Do you remember those Outward Bound courses that everyone went into in the 90s? Well, we got involved in that. The best weeks of my life, we went to Lake Windermere and we were with loads of other companies and we had to stay in this hall and they gave us tasks to do every day. We were locked away from the outside world, no papers, no TV, nothing. It was a fantastic time, that was. I remember we travelled by coach and we stopped at Rugby and we went in this restaurant and they bought us all steak. It was the only time I had a rare steak and it was the best steak I ever had. It was absolutely fantastic. Then we travelled from there up to Windermere. They said, “There’s the hall over there, but you’re not going on the coach.” They made us get off, they had all boats down in Windermere and we had to row across. We’d been travelling for hours! We were like, “What?” and we had to row across but I tell you what, Anthony, one of the best two weeks of my life. I learned to read maps, There’s a lot of mountains around and I learned to read shapes and what to look for, it was a fantastic time. There were companies from all over England but they’ve stopped doing that now. Gutting. I think everyone should go on one of those, women as well, even though it was all engineering there were women as well and that was in the 90s. They sent us on a lot of courses as well, because I went on a lot of managerial courses, a lot. So there’s a lot of things I know you have to do and what they didn’t send us they got them in to do it in there. They were pretty good.
We had a good social club where I saw every show going, back in the 90s I saw every show, I didn’t miss any: Phantom of the Opera, all of them. I saw them all, Anthony, and I love those sort of things. Because I was in the social club and I organised it, I got to know the people who sold the tickets and so I used to get tickets for about £10. I mean, Phantom of the Opera was costing a massive amount of money back in the day. I got £30 tickets for £10 each. So I saw every show, every show and more. Even shows that no-one’s heard of, there’s one, my favourite show, called Five Guys Named Mo – absolutely fantastic. It was like a singing and dancing thing but the first three rows, because we were always in the best rows, we’re sitting there and then the guy went, “Right, first three rows up on the stage!” “What?” I’m up on the stage in front of thousands of people and we had to do a dance on the stage. Brilliant, that was. There were loads of trips, we went to Norway on a cruise, we went to Blackpool, we went everywhere.
Anthony
That sort of thing doesn’t seem to happen much now.
Warren
Not at all, Anthony. nowhere does that any more. I think it goes with the best times because it bought everybody together, sort of thing. That made you do things together even when it was the end of work.
Anthony
Did you ever meet the owners of the business?
Warren
No. Only the managers and directors, things like that.
Anthony
And did they come on these trips at all?
Warren
Yes. Some of them did. I remember one time I had to do – the reason I’m not frightened to do these things like the one I did for you in the Enfield Theatre is because what had happened, they wanted someone in the firm to explain to the French what we actually did and so all these French people, the bosses, all came over and I was the one who had to do it because I was in charge of the department and they said it was my job. And I was terrified, all these big wig people and it was packed but I did it and actually better than I thought I could and that’s why these sort of things don’t frighten me any more and that I do remember. It was frightening.
Anthony
So in 2004 you left there.
Warren
Yes, but the guy who came to close it he was trying to keep another firm going in Watford and this was a music firm, Besson’s. He was trying to keep it open and he said to me and two or three other people could we come down there and see if we could help him because he liked the way we worked so another guy and two ladies said alright. It seemed a big distance to travel but we thought, “Why not?” because when they made us redundant at Saint Gobain they paid us a thousand pounds for every year we were there so we had money in the bank but we didn’t want to go and spend it all out by not working. So we left English Abrasives or Saint Gobain on the Friday and on the Monday we started in Watford. I had a car so I used to pick the other three up and we used to drive there every day and I said, “What are we doing?” and they said, “We make musical instruments.” Boosey & Hawkes was their original name. They changed to Besson’s but they kept Boosey & Hawkes in little writing underneath.
Anthony
Roval, the plating shop, who used to be where your office is now, used to do work for Boosey & Hawkes, gold plating their mouth pieces.
Warren
There was a little room with these sort of stands and you put the instruments on the stands and you polished them. They didn’t let us get anywhere near making them or doing bits to start with, we just polished them up. When they finished in the next building all the putting together they came to us and we did the polishing. So, for about six or seven months we just did the polishing and in the end the two girls left and they went in the prison service but I stayed on, the other guy left in the end and I was the only one who stayed and they offered me a job. I was there long enough so they moved me from cleaning into the main building and there were trombones and there were horns, there were clarinets but they didn’t let me touch the clarinets. They were lovely, they were beautiful. So, I started helping to make these things. The main thing that I was on was the horns. All the sections did their own bits, they made the actual horn over there and my job was the valves – all the bits that makes the sound.
You work as a team, there were two in a team – me and this other lady – and we had to do at least six a day. Had to be done by hand, no machines and you had to make sure that when they go in they are not tight and they are not loose and you had to do it by hand, no machine touching the valves! So it was all rubbing, special sort of papers you know and then once we had done it – you fit them in, tighten them down and press in and in the end you could feel whether they were right. They made the valves over there but they never fitted when you first made them like that. They can get them down to near but they can never get them to fit into the actual valve compartment. We had to do that by hand and every single one you had to rub down and we had to do six a day. Trust me, it’s a lot. You have to do each six at the same time and move it to the next bit and these valves – as I said, after a time you got to feel, you could feel when you pressed it down if it wasn’t. You don’t want to hear anything but you don’t want it to be loose and shaking about in it.
Anthony
You are explaining why these horns can be very expensive.
Warren
Yes, because they are all done by hand. Then you might get some that had a dent in the horn bit that comes out like that (gestures) and you don’t throw anything away! There’s a special guy over there and you’ll give it to him and you’ll get it back and you wouldn’t believe there was ever a dent in it. It was unbelievable. After a while I could do those things with my eyes shut and I really liked it. The company seemed like it was thriving and then one day he called us in and said, “We really are struggling, it looks like we are going to have to close but we’ll keep on going for a while and see what we can do.” So we all carried on but it lost everything the moment they did that. But I was there for – what? A year? A year and a half? It was 2006 when I left there, 2005 Christmas I think it was and I was out of work for a couple of months but that was a shame because it was a really great job and it was very technical. When you’ve finished doing your bit and it goes to the tester, he’s the man who plays it, from some big orchestra down in London somewhere, paying £50,000 or something silly to keep him there.
Anthony
He wasn’t called Dennis Wick, was he?
Warren
The name sounds familiar.
Anthony
We used to gold plate mouthpieces for Dennis Wick who designed them but we also used to do the Boosey Hawkes’s ones. I suspect it was him, he was very famous.
Warren
Yes, he was very famous, this guy. He came with all his own mouthpieces in a box and he’d say, “This is the so and so, this is the something else,” and he was a really nice guy. And he’d always explain the what and why of this one, and why not that one. He could play that thing and he’d do his bit and if he thought it wasn’t right it’s coming back because where we would think, “Yeah, that’s fine.” he would say, “No, I can hear something.” and he’d give it back for more work.
Warren
After that I came here (to Fisher Research) in February 2006, and I’m still here now.
Anthony
And how different is working in industry now from when you started, do you think?
Warren
Much more relaxed now, to me – well, very relaxed here. There’s no stress here, before I found there was always a bit of stress and sometimes the stress really did get to you. It was always quick, quick. We still need things out quick here, at Fisher Research, but people don’t go, “Come on! Come on!” it’s not like that. To me it’s changed totally where you’re left to get on with it, get the work done, get it out but no-one’s on you where before people were always overlooking and the worst thing is someone overlooking you while you’re trying to work because you know that when someone’s doing that you muck everything up. You’ve got that feeling of a presence round you and that’s what I’ve found different now, compared to back then. Here it’s not like that and as the years have gone by it’s actually got even less stress, I’ve noticed, and since then the work has piled out the door. If you leave them alone they seem to get more work done; that’s my opinion.
Anthony
I think you are probably right. I think a lot of the problem is that people are under estimated, not trusted when they should be. You’ve got to trust people.
Warren
Yes, and that’s what it is. I feel if you’re over people all the time you don’t get the work out of them. You just don’t.
Anthony
And it’s also the difference between a small company and a big company.
Warren
Possibly, Anthony, that could be it. I think people need training to know how to handle people. I look at people and try to work out what’s the best way because some people you can put your arms around them and others you have a go at and others if you have a go at them they will do nothing for you. I think that was what was wrong back then; people didn’t train enough to understand people – how they work, so they were handled wrong and they never got the work out of them.
Anthony
You live near the Tottenham Hotspur Football Stadium, don’t you?
Warren
Yes, right on the stadium. I’ve always close to there because Bruce Castle Park Road is just across the High Road from the Ground and then we moved – that was the furthest I ever moved, almost out of Tottenham, to Winchelsea Road which is off Billet Lane which is up at High Cross and that’s the furthest I have ever been away from the Spurs Ground. Then in 1974, we moved to Winchelsea Road and that was a brother we moved in with. My brother had a big house and loads of kids and we were all in the same house. So we all kept the family, that’s why I love family. Even though it was only my Mum and I we lived with all the cousins and then we moved about 1979/80, to Northumberland Park where I am still now.
Anthony
So you were living in a house with your Mum?
Warren
Yes, and that was an absolute shocker. When my Mum died and I went through her papers, I thought, “How did she pay all these bills?” I worked, I gave her a certain amount which she wanted and the rest was all mine. Why didn’t she take more? I don’t know how she coped, because she had this bill, that bill, this bill, and that was a shock for me and for the first few years I struggled because those were the days when you could pass the maisonette over to the son or daughter, they don’t allow that any more for one person; they move you into a smaller place.
Anthony
So it was a council property?
Warren
Yes, it was council, it’s not council now, it’s mine now but it was council at the time and I found all these bills. For two years I almost went under, I almost folded. When my Mum died I was only about 20, that was in the early 80s, I was only young then and suddenly I had this whole three bedroomed maisonette to look after on my own.
Anthony
How old was your Mum when she died?
Warren
I think she was about 60, she was the same age as the Queen. She was born in the same year as the Queen. She died of cancer, a sad time that was. But as I said, for two years I struggled because I could never work out how she paid all these bills. Just for the first few years and the, all of a sudden, it just came to me and I’d been living there practically all my life, I was about 13 or 14 when we moved there and my daughter is still with me. I was never married but I did have a partner for fifteen years before we split up. We didn’t split up with any animosity, we were still good friends when we had my daughter and my son. My son has autism, he’s not like bad with it but he’s got something. So, she went with another guy and he turned out to be a bad ‘un, beat her up and things like that. They had two kids, the two kids were lovely – well, they’re not kids any more, they’re teenagers now – and they’re like family with us as well. We’re still all a big family even though we’re not together. In the end she had to leave, she was living in Enfield. My son lives with her, he needs someone looking after him because of the autism, and I’m working all the time so she looked after my son.
She lived over in Alma Road, just off Alma Road and on Fridays I used to go and pick him up and he stayed with me for the weekend. I got round to her house and I saw all these C.I.D, these police people outside her house and I thought, “What’s going on?” I went to go in and they said, “Where are you going? Back!” She had to come out and say, “No, no, that’s my son’s father,” and they let me in. It was because of this guy, it got that bad, they were talking about guns. I didn’t know all this until later on and in the end they had to quietly move her to Cornwall. That’s why she now lives in Cornwall with my son and we go down there regularly. I love that. In the end they put this guy away for about nine years. He did five and he’s back out now but she’s a Cornwall person now. That’s why we go down to Cornwall as much as we can, we will be down there for a week in August but we’ve actually rented a chalet, my daughter, her boyfriend, me and the dogs are all going because through her we’ve got to know Cornwall and I love Cornwall. Absolutely fantastic, I love that place and what hits you is everyone says Good Morning, or Good Afternoon. I think to myself, “I remember this. It was like this when I was about ten or eleven. People would say “Morning” to you but it doesn’t happen any more. If you say “Morning” to someone they look at you like, “What?”. It’s lovely, life is so different. When I’ve gone the weather has always been good; even in winter time the weather’s lovely. And that’s how she’s ended up down there. My daughter lives with me, she still lives with me, but she’ll go when she’s ready. That’s how I look at it. And I love having my daughter there anyway, why should I want her out? But you find a lot of fathers who will run their sons out, you know, but I think, “Let them leave when they leave,” because they always do in the end, don’t they.
Anthony
How old is your daughter now?
Warren
My daughter’s now 32, don’t look it though. I’ve also got another daughter where I was going with the mother for about a year. I didn’t know she had this daughter until we’d split up about five or six years when suddenly I got a ‘phone call and blah, blah, blah, and the first thing I said was, “It’s nothing to do with me,” but then when I saw my other daughter (I knew she was mine).
Anthony
Where does she live?
Warren
Somewhere in Enfield. I speak to her on Facebook and things like that but I don’t push myself on her. If she wants me she knows where I am. She about a year older than my other daughter. But I knew nothing of her because we’d split up, they were good times, those; because I was with my other lady then and I kept saying, “I had no idea about this,” but that’s all part of living. This country has given me everything I’ve got and when I hear people knocking this country it gets me so angry, it gets me so angry. I shut up but I’m angry. If you don’t like it here – leave.
Anthony
I think there is a lot of prejudice and discrimination but somehow we’ve got to overcome it by friendship and dialogue.
Warren
That’s the only way, Anthony. Absolutely. This country has been good to me. Everything I’ve got is through this country and I wouldn’t live anywhere else but England. No where.
I’m staying in England. Everything’s here. I don’t understand it. When my kids were younger, we went everywhere, Anthony; you name it, we went. The mother of my kids, we had the same vein, we went everywhere. I hate it when people knock this country, I want to be friends with everybody, I don’t want to hate anybody. I want to do what I want in my life and I’m not going to go telling you that you shouldn’t be doing that, that’s your life. It’s all an attitude thing. I love to travel and when I travel I try to do everything what that country does. That’s the idea, you want to learn these cultures, that’s what it’s all about. To be honest, I can’t understand that way of thinking. It baffles me because I don’t think that way and I never have. It’s really strange. I mean, it makes me laugh when people talk about racism. they seem to think it’s only a white person can be racist. No, it works the other way just as bad, maybe even worse!
Anthony
Every is capable of racism and prejudice, everyone.
Warren
That’s why I hurt when I hear it because I know what I’ve been through in this country. I’ve watched this country change, it’s a fantastic place to live. It’s not as good as it was back then. People’s attitudes were different, it was totally different. Like as said, you’d walk down the road and say Good Morning – you don’t get that any more. I do it purposely to people and some of them are so happy and we have a conversation.
Anthony
I find if you smile at someone they will smile back and you can have what I call an “incidental” conversation, it might only be three sentences but people respond.
Warren
They do! A smile is so right because I did that a couple of times the other day, just smile at someone and they smile back at me. It is there but something’s keeping it away.
Anthony
Anyway, we’ve had fifty four minutes, fifty seconds.
Warren
I could go on for a year.
Anthony
So could I! I’ll stop it now. Thank you.