Interview of Stella MacDonald by Anthony Fisher
Interview conducted by Anthony Fisher in 2023 transcribed by Valerie Fisher
Anthony
May I have your date of birth?
Stella
3rd April, 1921.
Anthony
Do you have any brothers and sisters?
Stella
I’m sorry; the whole lot have gone.
Anthony
But in the early days did you have brothers and sisters?
Stella
Yes, five. (Inaudible), Lenny, Norman, Shirley, Jimmy and Georgie my stepbrother or adopted brother.
Anthony
So four brothers and one sister. Were you born in Enfield?
Stella
No, I was born in Homerton Hospital.
Anthony
Good Lord! That’s where my daughter-in-law works! But you’ve lived in Enfield a long time?
Stella
Yes, most of my life really with ten years in Spain.
Anthony
How long were you at school for?
Stella
I was at school until I was 14.
Anthony
In Enfield?
Stella
More than one school. You know those were hard times and we were pushed around. I went to Hazelbury Open Air School, Croyland Road School, Brainham Road School but I had others before that but it was Tottenham – St Catherine’s College.
Anthony
What work did your father and mother do?
Stella
My father worked – he was a chimney sweep at the Royal Hospital Chelsea. But the wages those days were very very poor.
Anthony
And did your brothers and sister work in Enfield?
Stella
I don’t know much about them at all. Some were in Enfield but where I don’t know.
Anthony
You were married. Do you have any children?
Stella
I have one son who lives on the Isle of Wight and one daughter. My first husband was actually killed in Italy during the War and it was his pal, they were pals together in the Army, they were both MacDonalds and they got separated – they went to North Africa together and they were separated there, both to Italy where the Germans were but to different places, My husband got killed but the other survived. They had made a promise to each other that if anything happened to one of them, the other would look after the family and make sure the family survived. And that’s what happened. The children’s step father, as he became, and I got together after the War and got married and had my youngest son.
Anthony
As a woman, at one time I know – my late wife was a nurse – when you got married you had to leave work – the same with teachers, I think, did getting married affect your work at all?
Stella
No. What was I doing? I was looking after the children and after a little while I got that job at MK. I got these photos here, that was after the War when we got married. (She shows Anthony the photos)
Anthony
What a lovely smile you have.
Stella
These were the most important photos, I’ve got no others, and that was our Fiftieth Anniversary in a Chinese restaurant in Fuengirola, Malaga. Our Golden Wedding.
Anthony
What was your first job – you left at 14?
Stella
My first job I went to Bassett’s at Wood Green, in 1935, and I was making pipes, liquorice pipes on a board and I was only there six weeks. I hated it. I used to have to take the tram up towards Alexandra Palace but after that it was Seven Sisters Road. There was a tall chimney stack with Bassett’s written on it.
Anthony
Where were you living then?
Stella
I was in Upper Edmonton with my family, I wasn’t married or anything then. I didn’t like that job so before the War I did all sorts of things – paper girl for one, until I got married. I was about 12 years old and I worked for Frank and his family lived in Harton(?) Road, Edmonton but he himself lived in Elstree Gardens it was sort of newly built then but you know, there’s such a lot that I can’t think of everything at one time. I got married at St James’s Church in 1937 and my son, Andrew, was born in 1939. I was married two years before I had Andrew. I was evacuated in the War, I’ve had a very muddled life, do you know what I mean.
Anthony
What did you do at MK Electric?
Stella
We were assembling plugs, they had round pins then, and that was when we had one lady come in, a coloured lady and they put her next to me and I always remember this, there was a bit of an argument, you know the drill, so I turned round and I said to them, “If you scratch your hand or your arm and she scratches hers the blood would be the same, red.” and I’ve stuck by that, even my carer – she comes in three times a day and she’s from Africa.
Anthony
So at MK you were assembling plugs; was it a conveyor belt line?
Stella
No, we used to have a line that was before we had the belts, that sort of thing come after. This was after the War, in the 1950s.
Anthony
Where did you go then?
Stella
Well, we moved, didn’t we. I was moving about, different places. We went down to Whitehouse flats, part of the time I was at Dunlop’s and part of the time at (Indidoatease)?
But there’s such a lot, it would take hours.
Anthony
Where were Dunlop’s?
Stella
In Bridport Road. I also worked for Charles MacIntosh and I used to do collars, help make collars, they were – at the end there’s a road that goes down to Queen Street into Tottenham, it was down that road in South Edmonton.
Anthony
As a woman working, were you with men or always with women?
Stella
Always with women, yes.
Anthony
How do you think the company treated you as a woman? Were you happy?
Stella
Very. But more or less was leaving jobs to get more money. That was the idea, it wasn’t character although you learned different things but you were looking for somewhere where you could earn more.
Anthony
MacIntosh’s aren’t there any more, are they?
Stella
No. It’s Regent Tyres now, where Dad worked – remoulds.
Anthony
And after MacIntosh’s, where did you go?
Stella
I was married then and I went back to MK again but before then I went to Doherty’s, making linings for doctors’ bags. Linings – you name it, I’ve done it.
Anthony
Was there a social life? I know in Brimsdown there were a lot of darts clubs and so on.
Stella
Never had a chance; always working you know. Never thought of it really although some firms used to have an annual outing but I never went on them although I did go on one. The whole family went on a coach to the south coast. At Christmas time they had a Christmas party for the children, that sort of thing. The only one I ever remember was with one of the old ministers from St Mary’s Church in Edmonton that he used to put on for us children when we were little and we used to go to Theydon Bois in a coach for a day and we thought that was lovely.
Anthony
How did you get to work in the main?
Stella
On the old fashioned bus.
Anthony
You went on the tram once, didn’t you?
Stella
Yes, I remember that. That’s how I met my daughter, Stella’s, dad. There was an old woman with a big basket of stuff getting off the tram and she got stuck between the door, there was always the two and we were laughing and there was this two chaps, young chaps there, and her father was one of them and we just got together and that was it.
Anthony
That was a good way to meet someone, it wasn’t planned, it was just a happy accident.
Stella
Yes.
Anthony
I think your daughter mentioned that you worked for Delta Metals at one time.
Stella
Not Delta, Doherty’s. That was doing the doctors’ cases and cases for crematoriums, workmen and so on. I worked for Thorn’s and Sangamo Weston. They were on the A10 before Belling & Lee’s – Sangamo Weston – that was their place. Then they moved further up the A10 and that’s where we went. But you know the old Belling’s, just Belling’s, not Belling & Lee’s were in Southbury Road.
Anthony
So where was Belling & Lee then?
Stella
Belling & Lee took over the other place.
Anthony
Sangamo’s? It’s now a food distribution warehouse. I’m interested in Ruberoid’s – when did you start working there?
Stella
It was during the War but what date I don’t know because that’s where I met Mr Hofler, the German. He was the only one that was there and we went to see where he lived.
Anthony
Where were you living when you worked in Ruberoid’s?
Stella
Ashford Crescent, just off Green Street.
Anthony
So you were reasonably close to work?
Stella
Oh yes. Number 10 Ashford Crescent.
Anthony
So what did you do in Ruberoid’s?
Stella
I was on the lines making soles and heels, for the Airforce. I used to drop my daughter off at the nursery.
Anthony
Was it something they always did or was it just for the War?
Stella
That was war work, as far as I know they didn’t do it before the War. I wasn’t old enough really to take all that sort of thing in. We weren’t allowed to, it was a case of oh, you’ve learnt that, get off and learn something else. You forget that.
Anthony
How long did you work at Ruberoid’s?
Stella
It was after I was evacuated and I came back. My daughter and I were evacuated to Norfolk.
Anthony
I see, your daughter was a young child. I was wondering why you were evacuated. So whereabouts in Norfolk did you go to?
Stella
It’s hard to say because my life was divided up so much. We went to a farm in Norfolk and I worked on the farm and various people looked after the baby.
Anthony
Were you a land girl?
Stella
Not a land girl, I was just evacuated there. When the train arrived we were all in a line and this lady picked me out and that was it.
Anthony
What did you do on the farm?
Stella
Well, I used to take interest, I used to help pick the berries and anything to maybe churn up for the cheese and useful things like that.
Anthony
It must have been hard work.
Stella
Not really. If the men were out in the fields they never got an hour to come back so I used to take out a bag for their lunch or whatever and they might be sitting under the hedge having their lunch. It was a lovely life really. Very different to what I had been used to.
Anthony
When you came back, where did you go to work?
Stella
I must have gone back to Mum’s
Anthony
So you came back before the end of the War?
Stella
Yes. From Mum’s, next door they had a room to let, and Mum wanted me to go next door so I went upstairs in one room.
Anthony
When you got back and you were living in this single room, where were you working?
Stella
That’s when I started going down Brimsdown doing all the jobs.
Anthony
What was your favourite job, do you think?
Stella
MK, I think. I used to like that, it was in Edmonton though. Doing anything electric. I’m very fussy and anything goes wrong with the electric – I’m there. I’ve got my telephone clock to fix up today.
Anthony
Can you remember any of the companies you worked for in Brimsdown?
Stella
Not now, though I did do some other things down there. It mainly was Ruberoid’s doing things for the War effort and Swan Ediswan, with lightbulbs.
Anthony
That was a very famous company. That’s really interesting because they have knocked most of that down now but there’s one bit of the office left.
Stella
I used to go over the railway to it. I’d forgotten about that one.
Anthony
What did you do In Swan Ediswan?
Stella
I think I was inspecting the lightbulbs. You’d look at them to see the problems inside.
Anthony
Did you have to lift up each bulb or did you do them randomly?
Stella
I can’t remember. That job wasn’t one I really liked, it wasn’t interesting work. When I retired I was working at Belling & Lee’s where I was on the line, as usual. I was wiring and soldering. I was very nimble with my hands then.
Anthony
What were they making?
Stella
Lots of things, printed circuit boars, televisions. I’ve done lots of things.
Anthony
When you were working on televisions that would have been at Thorn’s?
Stella
On the line and the end was the finished product. We each did our own bit and it was passed along the line.
Anthony
Did you always work on the same bit?
Stella
Not always, it depends on what kind of set was being done. I was working one day and we had visitors come round and this man was standing at the side of me and I dropped my pliers on the floor and I said to him, (coaxing tone) “Pick it up for me,” and it was only Mr Thorn and they laughed; they said to me when they had gone by, “Did you know who that was?” I said, “No, who was it? Only a visitor.” They said, “That was Thorn.”
Anthony
But he did pick them up for you?
Stella
He just picked them up and give them to me. It’s amazing, isn’t it.
Anthony
Going back to Ruberoid’s, when the War stopped did they go back to making roofing felt or did they do other things as well?
Stella
Well, they lost MK didn’t they, they went down near Southend somewhere.
Anthony
Enfield shed a lot of manufacturing over the years. What was it like working a) as a woman and b) working in industry? I mean, how did you feel?
Stella
I was alright.
Anthony
What did your friends and neighbours and family think of you working in industry?
Stella
They were all for it. We all got on well, very seldom had any arguments. They were working in the same sort of things anyway.
Anthony
Did people, as a community, get on well together do you think?
Stella
That is the main thing, isn’t it, when you are working. I mean we had men as supervisors walking round, do you know what I mean? They were watching – of course, they had to watch that, you know, the various bits and pieces were right. But it was never “Shut up” or anything like that or, “Don’t talk” but in those days I don’t think we did use to talk at all. Not when we were working unless we wanted something, you know.
Anthony
Do you think the owners of the businesses then tended to be local, tended to be known; did that make a difference, do you think?
Stella
Might have done, I don’t know. At Doherty’s we had Reg Doherty, Edward, can’t remember the other one now, but Reg Doherty, he was really a nice man, I liked him. He was almost like one of the boys, if there was a problem he was the one who would go in and sort it out. He always had a nice way, never angry. The family knew him as well, the old man Edward, he was a friend of my son-in-law.
Anthony
I’ve not worked in Brimsdown as long as you obviously but it seemed to be different when I started work there in the ‘60s. People knew each other and talked to each other and nowadays it seems that people come from everywhere.
Stella
That’s true; people seem more suspicious of one another these days than they did then because we would all in the same boat really. Most of them were poor, I mean I used to have to, even when I was at school, we used to have to go to Pymme’s Park with a yellow ticket to get a dinner, when I was a kid.
Anthony
Where did you go for that?
Stella
It’s now the rose garden, there was a place there and we used to go in there and have a yellow ticket.
Anthony
Who gave you the food?
Stella
I don’t know, I was only a tot but I remember it.
Anthony
Did you do that every day?
Stella
No. I went for a week and my mum said, “No more, I’m not going to take you up there every day.”
Anthony
But you could have gone every day? People did?
Stella
I don’t think so, I think mum was a bit – she didn’t want it.
Anthony
Where did the yellow ticket come from?
Stella
I think we had them from school. I mean we never had baths, we had to go to Edmonton Town Hall if we wanted a bath, where the police station is there. That used to be the Town Hall.
Anthony
What about laundry? There was something called a bag wash, wasn’t there, did your mum use that?
Stella
Even when my daughter, Stella, was a child we used to take bed linen and that down to the – well it was a cleaners, it was Stephen King’s, we used to take the bag there on a Monday morning and collect it on Friday.
Anthony
It was a net bag, wasn’t it?
Stella
Yes, it was like an old pillow case – no, like the old flour sacks and it had metal rings round the top, like an old kit bag.
Anthony
And they used to wash the clothes in the bag?
Stella
No, not in the bag they were done separately. Those were the days. What do we do now -put them in the washing machine, number 30, no higher.
Anthony
When in the ‘80s, industry started leaving Enfield, how did you feel about that? Seeing all the jobs go.
Stella
I wasn’t here, I was in Spain.
Anthony
So you missed it.
Stella
I’ve seen a lot of changes, I mean even if she’s pushed me out in the chair or if I’ve gone in a car, going down to Edmonton Green, I can’t believe it, what they’re doing down there. Are they going to pull it down again?
Anthony
Why did you go to Spain?
Stella
My husband retired and he said we’d go over there and we were there ten years.
Anthony
And you enjoyed it?
Stella
Yes, but we were out one morning and he sort of slipped his foot on the kerb and I don’t know how it happened but he lost his sight so I took him to Malaga, he saw a specialist and he said, “No, you’ve got to fly up to Barcelona,” so we flew up to Barcelona and we were there for three days in the hospital and they looked at him and they said, “No, we can’t do anything,” he was totally blind and we come back. He lost the sight in one eye and had glaucoma in the other eye and in those days they couldn’t sort it out though nowadays they’ve got drugs and things. He was too old to adjust to being blind, he was too dependent and he had a nervous breakdown.
Anthony
How awful.
Stella
We had a very nice agent there who was able to deal with everything for us and could deal with the legal stuff so we just moved everything out and came home. I’ve never had a days quarrel with my daughter, we never argue and I give them their space. I look after myself but if I do need anything I know I can call on them but I’ve just given up too much cooking.
Anthony
Looking back on working in Enfield do you have any overall feeling about it? Did you feel it was a pleasant experience?
Stella
Very. I enjoyed it but I think I’ve had a good life really. I’ve had my ups and downs but the worst one was going down Green Street with my daughter Stella, one morning, because we used to go down about half past seven to put her in the nursery before I went off to work and I was right by the park and a blooming doodle bug come over and I threw her on the ground and laid on her while that thing went over the top. That was the worst experience and I’ll never forget it.
Anthony
When the engine stops ….
Stella
You don’t know where it will drop and I threw her down like that.
Anthony
I remember lots of bicycles particularly at the Green Street crossing when the heavy old gates open.
Stella
Well, I’m exhausted.
Athony
I’ll switch off now and thank you very much indeed.